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True Dawn - Astronomical Twilight

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#1 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2013 21:03

 

Convention Fajr  Angle Isha Angle
University of Islamic Sciences, Karachi 18      18
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) 17.5 15
Muslim World League (MWL) 18 17
Umm al-Qura, Makkah 19* According to their table it is 90 mins after Maghrib
Egyptian General Authority of Survey 19.5* *

Above taken from here

There are no Deobandi Ulamah in the entire world today who disagree with 18 degrees (for Suhoor i.e. closing fast)

Two things that what I would like to do is present the names of Ulama past and present from the Deobandi school, since it is obvious that everyone else agrees with 18 degree criteria, including the Barelwi.

The other is the ruling they follow when astronomical twilight (True Dawn) doesnt occur ONLY for Fajr as Esha is not the issue!

Currently, it seems that Fajr time has been set to at the last time when astronomical twilight (True Dawn) occured and then carries on when the true dawn does apper, which seems to be the most accurate method. However there are those who will rightly say that Fajr doesnt start during these summuer months of mid May to mid July

I appreciate that this has been discussed many times before, but there is no final say on this with a unanimous decision.

The Angles made clear

 

The Qur’aan has declared the time of Subh Sadiq:

"Eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread". (Al Baqarah 2:187)

THE WHITE THREAD APPEARS AT TRUE DAWN.  WHICH IS AT 18 DEGREES, ALSO KNOWN AS ASTRONOMICAL TWILIGHT.

The time for Subh Sadiq is at the crack of dawn or the first speck of light on the eastern horizon, after which darkness ends and the light of morning spreads. The majority of the Fuqaha/Jurists have preferred the crack of dawn to be the time of Subh Sadiq. The fatwa given in the Hanafi Madhab is also on this opinion. (Fataawa Shaami 1:357)

All the scholars of the past and present have practised this opinion. And this, in scientific terms is known as Astronomical Twilight. 

It was the noble practise of our Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) that two Adhans were often given in his beloved Masjidun-Nabawi (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam):

  1. Adhan of Sayyidina Bilal (RA) which was EARLY
  2. Adhan of Sayyidina Ibn Umm Maktoom (RA) which was TRUE DAWN

Sayyidina 'Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud (RA) reported that the Messenger of Allah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) had said: Bilal (RA) would pronounce Adhan (at the end of the night in order to inform the people about the time of the Suhoor). So you eat and drink till you hear the Adhan of Sayyidina Ibn Umm Maktum (which was pronounced at the conclusion of the Suhoor and the commencement of the fast) [Muslim]

Sayyidina Ibn Umm Maktum (RA) was BLIND so there is no way he could have checked whether true dawn had arrived or not so he must have been informed. So the lesson in this is our dear and beloved Sayyidina Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and Sahaba (RA) observed and then informed him (so there is no chance of error) and THEN it was communicated to him and THEN he carried out the Adhan.

Even appointing a Blind Sahabi (RA) for a job is full of wisdom because the roles could have been reversed and Sayyidina Ibn Umm Maktum (RA) to call the first Adhan (people keep eating) and Sayyidina Bilal (RA) to call the second Adhan for people to STOP!

Samura bin Jundub (RA)reported Allah's Messenger (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) as saying: The Adhan of Bilal should not mislead you nor the whiteness (of the pillar) of dawn, for it is not the whiteness of the true dawn, but that of the false dawn which is vertical like a pillar and you can eat food till the streaks of whiteness spread like it. [Muslim]

Conclusion of eating after Adhan?

The Authentic Hadeeth of Saheeh Muslim categorically proves that a person CANNOT eat after Adhan of TRUE DAWN but if its not the Adhan of TRUE DAWN then the person can eat. Today we dont have an Adhan for before True Dawn.

Various institutes that are referred to for the Fajr times currently in use in many countries consider 18 degrees as the minimum degree for calculating Fajr time. For example, Muslim World League (MWL), Umm al-Qura, Makkah, and the University of Islamic Sciences, Karachi.

 

False Dawn:

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#3 [Permalink] Posted on 13th July 2013 22:36
Based on the most accurate method of calculating Fajr and Isha times by Muslim World League and Scholars from around the world

The Subh Sadiq times on this timetable are based on 18 degrees. This is the most accepted opinion amongst scholars of both the Arab world and of the Indian- Pakistani Subcontinent.

"Fajr begins when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon. This basis has been confirmed by both scientific and religious research carried out by a large number of scholars in both fields."
Mufti Taqi Uthmani


This is also the view of:
Shaykhul Hind Mufti Mahmudul Hasan Deobandi,
Maulana Khalil Ahmed Saharanpuri (Both mentioned in Hal Ad Daqa'iq fi Tahqeeq As Subh As Sadiq),
Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi (Imdaadul Fatawa-Volume 1 Page 113),
Mufti Mahmud Al-Hasan Gangohi (Fatwa issued in 1983),
Maulana Saleem Dhorat (Leicester),
Mufti Sajid Patel,
Mufti Yusuf Sacha,
Mufti Ismail Barkodhrawi (Khantaria),
Mufti Ahmad Khanpuri(Dhabel)

and the Muslim World League which consists of many of the senior Ulama of the Arab world

Can we please expand on this list.
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#4 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2013 04:00
Salam wal alaykum. Just checked her majesty moin website. That has been posted by the other members. Its states Birmingham does not have the 18° twilight in last few days. What is the ruling there?
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#5 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2013 13:23
Please post questions such as the ones posed in this topic to the Ulamaa. Or click here for a vast library on islamqa.org. Alternatively, you can get support locating available answers online in the Q&A Support section of this form here
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#6 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2013 13:28
Jazakallah, thats precisely what this thread is about. Because next year Ramadhan will be when there is no astronomical twilight here in the UK.

What we are doing at the moment is keeping it fixed to when there was true dawn last in our area.

This is the site for working it out.

astro.ukho.gov.uk/websurf/

Instructions
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#7 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2013 17:53
MashaAllah, a couple of responses from Mufti Sajid Patel. May Allah reward him for his prompt response.

Quote:
It is true that during persisting twilight period there is no Isha time as mentioned in Shami with regards to Bulgar but to say that there is no Fajr time will be incorrect. The Fajr time is there but the beginning is not clear to us.

This is how brother Reedwan explains it your query:
"When the sun does not reach the fajr altitude and there is perpetual twilight, the sun anti-transit time (also known as solar midnight) is used. This is the point at which twilight moves from West to East, and stops decreasing and begins to increase and fill the horizon until the sun appears -- fulfilling the requirements of fajr. The time is equivalent to both nisf ul-layl (half magrib to sunrise) and aqrab ul-bilad (proportion of night at the nearest place where the fajr altitude is reached)".

والسلام

Sajid Patel,
London, UK

Also
Quote:


The safest times are Nisf-ul-Lail which is around 01:05AM and Aqrab-ul-Ayyaam 01:28AM. I'm not sure of any webpages which discuss this.

Mufti Yusuf Sacha & another Mufti Saab also prefer the above methods.

والسلام

Sajid Patel,
London, UK
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#8 [Permalink] Posted on 14th July 2013 23:12

The All-Sky Camera looks up from a small village called Bourn (Cambridgeshire)

  1. Visit the website for live feed
  2. Download the recording from the night before which is midnight to midnight
  3. Left of your screen is EAST
  4. Make the images as FULL SCREEN
  5. Note the time in the top left hand corner of your screen
  6. Time is in UTC which means what it shows on your Screen is 1 hour behind
  7. Stop the recording at around 00:49
  8. Observe the time between 00:49 and 02:15, carefully pay attention between 01:59-02:09
  9. Don't forget that the time is in UTC so you need to add one hour to get to current BST

There are no images or Music in this video so everyone is free to Watch.

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#9 [Permalink] Posted on 15th July 2013 09:40
Thats really neat stuff.

Are you sure the time is an hour behind, cos sunset for yesteday seemed to happen pretty late.

Can you give a breakdown at what we should be seeing at the times you've suggested and what it all means.
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#10 [Permalink] Posted on 15th July 2013 09:43

Anonymous wrote:
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Time is labelled in UTC which means that they should be one hour behind however after looking at some of the images I am not too sure so I am sending them an email to clarify.

Jazakullah Khairun

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#11 [Permalink] Posted on 15th July 2013 11:19

Site owner confirmed that the time is in UTC so you will be adding an hour to it.

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#12 [Permalink] Posted on 16th July 2013 14:27
youtu.be/uIUd-7ivw3o?t=51m

Watch from here, easy explanation about the timings from Ummah Channel (Barelwi)

Full interview is pretty good. The Respected Shaykh (Mufti Shams ul Huda) uses old Barelwi Fatawa to prove 18 Degrees is the one and only Sahih Stance.

SubhanAllah
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#13 [Permalink] Posted on 16th July 2013 14:38
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#14 [Permalink] Posted on 16th July 2013 14:54

abu mohammed wrote:
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Astronomical Twilight time is incorrect...

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#15 [Permalink] Posted on 16th July 2013 14:58
UK Weather Cams wrote:
Predicted times are corrected for BST and based on ideal weather conditions. Please use as an approximate guide/at your own risk only.
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